Sunday, October 08, 2006

The Amish - guest posting

I've been aware of Stephan Crockett, co-host of Democratic Talk Radio, for a couple of years. He works hard on behalf of the party and is to worthy of your time. He sent this piece this morning and it hits home on many points:

"Personal Reflections on the Amish"
by Stephan Crockett

I was deeply disturbed by the killing of the Amish schoolchildren in nearby Lancaster County, Pennsylvania. Children bring out the best part of my personality and the warmest emotions in my heart. From personal experience, I am completely convinced that the Amish live the closest to God of any group of people in America.

In my teens, I worked for awhile picking up cans of milk from Amish farms in Lancaster County and taking them to the dairy for processing. Later in my late twenties, I lunched several days a week at auctions and flea markets with a teenage Amish girl from Lancaster County named Ruth Ann Fisher. We talked mostly about family and faith.

Those talks stirred my spirit so much that I struggled to learn to read the Bible in German and seriously considered joining the Brethren. Eventually, I realized that my experiences were so different that I would never successfully fit in with the Amish lifestyle. I would have been a miserable failure as a farmer and did not know how to really think like one of the Plain Folk. I lived in a world of electric power, higher education and ambition. My German was pathetic.

What I gained from those talks, nearly half a lifetime ago, is still with me. My faith as a Christian was deeply influenced. There are many pathways to God but few as pure as the Amish. I cannot imagine anyone hating the Amish much less the Amish children.

In many ways, the Amish are like the Anti-Christian Right of the Christian faith although I doubt they had every considered the situation. The Amish are basically non-political. They are oriented toward peace, living plainly, living communally in many ways and care nothing for material wealth or power. They are into forgiveness instead of vengeance. Aggression and violence are alien concepts. Hard work is regarded as a virtue in itself instead of as an avenue to wealth and power.

The so-called Christian Right should look closely at the Amish lifestyle for lessons in what is wrong with their approach to faith and politics. The Amish are focused on becoming more Godly in their person and among their community. They do not seek to impose their values on others by law or force. They do not judge others but instead try to set examples in the way they live their lives.

Hate has no power or legitimacy in the Amish community or Church. They follow the example of Jesus Christ by forgiving and loving the worst of sinners. Only by understanding this fact can the non-Amish understand their reaction to the schoolhouse killings.

Personally, I find far more religious power in the Amish approach than in the approach of the so-called Christian Right. We can all learn from the Plain Folk. I hope our nation will be influenced a little more by the Amish even if we cannot fully follow in the footsteps of these Godly people.

25 Comments:

Anonymous Playtah said...

AMEN!

I was especially touched to hear of the Amish attending the funeral of the gunman, and setting up a fund for his widow and child.

I think they truly have discovered the heart of God.

10/08/2006 3:11 PM  
Blogger no2salvation-by-process said...

"There are many pathways to God but few as pure as the Amish."

There is only one 'pathway' to God The Father and that pathway is Jesus Christ. In turn there is only one way to Jesus Christ and that is if The Father draws us to His Son. John 6:44.

I only have one question mark over The Amish, why do they live lives that seem to take them 'out of the world' when the arrangement is supposed to be wholly different?

John 17:14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. 16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

Being not of the world is not cutting oneself off from the world, but rather remaining unspotted from the world whilst living in it and trusting in Jesus Christ to keep us from evil.

Jesus Christ was not of the world but no one mixed and lived His life more with people than did Jesus Christ, even eating with publicans and sinners.

My view is this, if you physically set yourself apart from the rest of humanity, you will only stand out and attract more attention than would be otherwise. In this case, attention with horrendous consequences.

y2t

10/08/2006 4:46 PM  
Anonymous Playtah said...

No-2Salvation-by-process,

You make assumptions....have you talked to the author? Do you know what he meant by "pathways"? What if he meant that you could find a pathway to God both in a Baptist or a Methodist church? I don't know for sure what he meant, but I looked at your blog, and you seem to take something someone says, take the worst possible interpretation, and then rip it apart. Seek first to understand, then to be understood. To me, you seem to represent what the world (and other Christ followers) doesn't like about Christianity...many people use it to be divisive, uncompassionate, and as a tool to buldoze people with the truth, instead of finding out where people are at, what they actually said and need, and then meeting them where they're at. Have you emailed the author or the blog master to find out what the author actually meant before you attacked him?

10/08/2006 6:07 PM  
Blogger Christian Democrat said...

Ah, Playtah, I love your heart, always. But I think you take y2t too seriously just as he does the words of Stephan. I haven't been to his blog and only have a few minutes here.

My thinking is that the Amish aren't taking themselves out of this world, God's creation, in any way. They are fully living in it in a manner that has the three of of going - "Wow - wouldn't that be great..."

But we don't live that way because Stephan is quite right - we couldn't if we wanted to. A couple years ago I was given a book "plain The Plain Reader" which is a collection of essays on the simple life and it reminded me of the desire in my youth to be part of a communal subsistance farm. Other things came along.

We should look to the Amish for a wonderful example and consider our country more fortunate for their presence. At the same time we should also recall that they are simply people and probably not so simple at all when you get to know them. We are all complex except to God.

May Peace be with all those affected, and thank God for the fine example of the Amish in an amazingly personal moment taken public at the grandest scale and dealt with entirely showing the appreciation of the Grace of God and it's beautiful application to our daily lives.

10/08/2006 7:56 PM  
Anonymous Playtah said...

Christian Democrat,
Well said. I appreciate your wisdom!

Is "The Plain Reader" about the Amish, or the simple life in general? Either way, it sounds like an intersting book!

10/09/2006 5:50 AM  
Blogger no2salvation-by-process said...

To Playtah,

"What if he meant that you could find a pathway to God both in a Baptist or a Methodist church?"

The Church is people - the Ecclesia - those called by The Father to His Son - the elect and the elect do not need to be members of any other organisation. Once Born Again we are immediately members of His Church.

Demon-inations are divisions which The Lord through Paul commanded against. 1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

We are also exhorted to be likeminded and already I have people here who are against what I say, and all I have done is tell you the Truth. What is your problem?

"Have you emailed the author or the blog master to find out what the author actually meant before you attacked him?"

Did The Lord e-mail the Pharisees before He 'attacked' them?

To Christian Democrat,

"My thinking is that the Amish aren't taking themselves out of this world, God's creation."

I am not talking about the creation and nor is Scripture. This world or age, as it is also known, is Satan's world and that is the world or age we are in but are not of. Matt 4:8 "Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me."

We are not to be taken out of this world, but rather be left in it and yet remain unspotted from the world. The Amish have chosen to take themselves 'out of the world' and have unfortunately suffered the consequences of their actions.

n2sbp

10/09/2006 6:42 AM  
Anonymous Playtah said...

n2sbp,

All I'm saying is that there is more than one way to interpret what someone says, so it's best to find out what exactly they mean before you accuse them of heresy.

(For example, if I say "I like golf", that could mean that I like to play golf. But it could also mean that I merely like to watch golf. A seemingly simple statement can have more than one meaning--that's what I'm trying to illustrate. As a biblical example, consider the statement Jesus made when he said, "I am the Door". He could be claiming to be a large piece of wood, or He could be claiming to be the only way to God. From the context, we know that he is using metaphor to illustrate the latter truth. That's my point--if you take issue with something, find out the author's context. We are human--it's possible we misunderstood something, or that the other person chose poor wording. Either way, it's best to get both sides before making a judgement.)

You may see a statement as black and white, but there may be aspects of it that you are missing. Jesus did talk and eat with Pharisees and religious leaders, that's why He knew where they were coming from, and what was in their hearts. I hope that you will give other people the same opportunity Jesus gave, and do it with humility and compassion. I myself have had times when I jumped to a conclusion because I thought that my interpretation was the right one. In reality, I had misconstrued someone's words or motives, and found that I was the one in the wrong. I'm just trying to save you from the same mistakes I've made in the past. :)

10/09/2006 7:38 AM  
Blogger Christian Democrat said...

n2spb & Playtah -

I happen to be leading a study of the book "Revelation" and am in the midst of it. Read it five or six times along with a couple of study guides and a chat or two with my pastors. It is apocryphal and it is incredibly capable of varied interpretation but my sense at this point is that we are living in the tribulation. We have no idea when it will end.

The Amish are very much a part of this world, they just choose to deny participation in those things which they see as unGodly. I will refute to the end any indication that they brought this tragedy upon themselves simply by separating themselves from the secular world.

There is a great conversation to be had about the eternal fight of good vs evil but I won't go there right now.

Peace to all.

10/09/2006 12:40 PM  
Anonymous Playtah said...

Christian Democrat - Wow! Revelation is a huge subject to tackle-kudos to your courage!!

In your study, do you tend towards one school of thought regarding its interpretation, or do you have the people look at different ways of interpreting, or how do you do it? I used to think I understood Revelation to a decent degree, but the more I learn, the more I realize that there's so many wonderful layers of meaning and symbolism. I know now that I've barely scratched the surface. So I'm very interested in how you approach this - maybe I could learn a thing or two!

I totally agree with you about the Amish.

Good vs. Evil - heavy stuff. I like to think that if Good and Evil were represented by the Rock 'em Sock 'em robots, that Evil would be the red one. But that's just a theory I have.

10/09/2006 1:05 PM  
Blogger Christian Democrat said...

Revelation is immense in scope (let's see - God and a variety of living creatures, elders and angels in Heaven, the Devil and beasts roaming the earth, stars falling out of the sky, flaming mountains flung into the ocean, warnings to man of the coming judgement in the form of war, famine and natural disasters, and the final judgement coming upon mankind) and is open to vast interpretative differences due to it's writing style and differences in theology.

But it is also a very simple book, really. The first seven letters of warning to the churches are letters that could be written today - "Get your act together - live as God has told you to - repent, be watchful, be ready." The unfolding of God's final plan as seen in the balance of John's vision is simply a show of His awesome power and true control over His creation. In the end, evil is destroyed, sin is gone, and God's kingdom has come. Revelation is really a book of hope and one to inspire perseverence among all Christians.

Are there different interpretations? Sure, and many of them. The first horse of the apocalypse some see as Jesus Christ, others see it as lust and greed, others go further and say it is the antichrist. That is about as broad a range as I can think of and it is but one of many available in the interpretation of Revelation.

As apocryphal as Revelation is, as full of symbology in visual description and in numerology, a case can also be made for a literal interpretation. Trusting that John was given this revelation from God and the Lamb we can say that it is as God wants us to understand the end of days, or at least consider them now. It could therefore be how God wants us to visualize heaven, too.

I take a vastly moderate track of interpretation. In the studies I am leading (one adult men's and one high school youth group) I urge each person to take the word in, and discuss it's meaning to them, or possible meaning to them, openly. The point to be made is that there are few absolutes of right and wrong in the interpretation and I think it more important for each person to have their own sense of meaning and trust in it themselves than it is for all of us to be on the same page.

We read Matthew 24: 36-42 at most sessions, or at least invoke it if all present have heard it in the course of this lesson.

As a Lutheran I find a couple of points in Revelation of special interest:

1. The 144,00 from the tribes of Israel that are sealed have a place in heaven without a faith in Jesus Christ. This is the covenant God gave Abraham and God does not go back on His word. That special invitation, however, goes only to those that lived Godly lives. A place in heaven received through faith in God and through the act of living in a Godly manner!

2. "Judged by what they have done" speaks not to a faith in Christ, but to actions. This one I have struggled with for some time and have found comfort in realizing that it is in how we define faith that this fits for me. I define faith not simply as the theological understanding we each come up with, but as what is done with that understanding. As we get to know Jesus through reading the Word (and seeing His light in some of those around us) we are drawn to act in a manner similar to Him. We take his Word to heart and mind and realize that love of our neighbor, and our co-worker, and our family that might not be perfect, and all the other people we meet in the day is something that can be expressed to each of them in a variety of ways. A simple smile, a comforting word, finding peace for two others that can't seem to find it themselves, a simple favor or a big group project that does good - these are all evidence of faith if that is their source. And it is that evidence of faith that I, me personally and take it for what you will, think we are judged by at the end of days.

I'll take a brief side trip here and mention Romans, a favorite book of many Lutherans, Martin Luther included. In Romans 2: 12-16. The Gentiles did not have Jesus, but Paul made the point that they "show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them." Every person knows right from wrong and will be judged accordingly. How this fits with my Lutheran theology I frankly don't know, but it is a piece of the puzzle I realize a need to find a place for.

Revelations is also incredibly full of Old and New Testament references. I doubt there is another book that has as many and think it's place in the Bible, at the end, as a fitting place for tieing it all together, showing God's plan in fairly complete state and making it plain to all of us that it is His plan, that it has been since before time and will continue until time ends.

And what will that be like?!!!

One person's thoughts, not a true theologian but one who seeks a truth that fits for himself and encourages others to do the same. There is a great deal more, of course, that can be found and discussed in the book of Revelation, but not enough room for it here. As always, I encourage Bible study in a diverse group for greater understanding and insight.

May His peace be with you!

10/10/2006 9:34 AM  
Blogger no2salvation-by-process said...

To Playtah and Christian Democrat.

"All I'm saying is that there is more than one way to interpret what someone says, so it's best to find out what exactly they mean before you accuse them of heresy."

There is no way I have misinterpreted anything. You see, Christian Democrat told me how he thinks and what makes him tick, just by his handle. He is a Christian involved in the world through politics. All politics and politicians are of the Devil. Politics is part of the Devil's system along with the banking system.

The UN, The EU, NATO, The IMF, The World Bank, The G8 Meetings etc..

Then there are the secret organisations that get next to no publicity: Skull & Bones, The Bohemian Grove, The Illuminati, The Biderbergers, The Trilateral Commission, The Confederation of Foreign Relations, etc etc. All these people are servants of The Devil and are the real power brokers in this world and they dictate policy to their political puppets or front men. Democracy, or better Demon-ocracy is all part of this corrupt system and a Son of God should have no part in it, nor be involved with it and especially not put their faith in it.

"You may see a statement as black and white, but there may be aspects of it that you are missing."

By black and white you mean God or mammon I presume. There are no shades of grey with The Godhead and therefore I am missing nothing.

"Jesus did talk and eat with Pharisees and religious leaders, that's why He knew where they were coming from, and what was in their hearts."

Correct, and that is why He called them nests of vipers and an evil generation etc., but He already knew they were of this nature before He ever had company with them.

"I hope that you will give other people the same opportunity Jesus gave, and do it with humility and compassion."

Of course, I always do, but just as people were then, so they are now in terms of not listening. Jesus Christ had only twelve who were listening.

"I myself have had times when I jumped to a conclusion because I thought that my interpretation was the right one."

You jumped to the wrong conclusion because you relied on your interpretation - trusting in your own understanding Prov 3:5 "Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding."

"In reality, I had misconstrued someone's words or motives, and found that I was the one in the wrong. I'm just trying to save you from the same mistakes I've made in the past."

Always best to remain silent unless The Lord directs you in what to say. Which is what I do, so you can rest assured that everything I have here is this post is The Truth

n2sbp

10/13/2006 1:13 PM  
Blogger Christian Democrat said...

n2sbp -

You are incredibly firm in your faith and that is to be commended. A great deal of Bible study and every experience of your life has gotten you to a point where you have great certainty in all things. Few of us find that peace.

I have no doubt about Father, Son and Holy Ghost but I also have few certainties about so many other things. I walk softly and if I'm carrying a big stick it is only my faith to support me and to share with others that need to be given a little nudge to help them along their own path to their own understanding. I'm one who would like to consider all different faiths equal, but can't quite get there yet. That said, I will give any person who considers themselves Christian a great deal of leeway in their theology.

Just as their are great differences between the different denominations all of which consider themselves God's church, there are differences here as well. Embrace and be thankful for our similarities in faith and seek what you can do to make this a better world as you might.

The more I read Revelation the more I agree with you about politics and business being the Devil's playground at the very least. But this is also God's world and we are His children living in it. If the Christian Fundamentalists were, in my opinion, casting false pretenses as regards God's desires (...who can know His will...) then my action here is to offer a place where people who question those pretenses have a place to find an alternative viewpiont. I think we agree that Faith should have nothing to do with politics and visa versa, but darnit, the fundamentalists got in there and it was too ugly to watch from the sidelines as hypocrites and liars repeatedly invoked the name of God as being on their side.

May His Peace always be with you.

10/14/2006 4:24 PM  
Anonymous Playtah said...

"All politics and politicians are of the Devil."

In this discussion of politics, I would completely disagree with this opinion. I think politics is like most other things in life - there are aspects about it that are bad, and there are aspects about it that are pleasing to God. There are a lot of politicians that do love Jesus, and to say that these are of the Devil is basically to deny God's working and God's very children in this realm. God has taught me over the years that not everything is THAT black and white, thank God.

This is a very interesting discussion. It's cool that everyone can share their viewpoint. Keep it up!
Peace.

10/14/2006 10:24 PM  
Blogger no2salvation-by-process said...

Playtah,

Three questions for you:

1) Do you think man's inspired liberal reforming is Christianity?

2) Where in Scripture does The Lord command us to change this world?

2) How many political leaders do you think there will be in The Kingdom of God?

I will give you a clue to help you with the correct answers.

John 18:33 Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again, and called Jesus, and said unto him, Art thou the King of the Jews? 34 Jesus answered him, Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me? 35 Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done? 36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

n2sbp

10/14/2006 10:55 PM  
Blogger no2salvation-by-process said...

Christian Democrat,

"I have no doubt about Father, Son and Holy Ghost but I also have few certainties about so many other things."

If you have no doubt about the Godhead you don't need any other 'certainties' for there are no other certainties. Do you not know that this earth, like mankind in the physical will pass away like a fading flower? All that is physical or to use a scientific term 'matter' is temporary and it is all held together by the power of The Holy Spirit (something scientists don't understand).

Revelation tells us there will be a new heaven and a new earth and The Father will make make His home there with us, His creation. Now these things are the real certainties.

"I'm one who would like to consider all different faiths equal, but can't quite get there yet. That said, I will give any person who considers themselves Christian a great deal of leeway in their theology."

As you are one who likes to consider other faiths as equal, what will you do when they have all repented of their foolishness and are fellow believers with me in Jesus Christ? For rest assured that day will come.

Romans 14:11 "For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God."

1 Tim 2:3-4 "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 "Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."

The thing is Christian Democrat, do you believe what is written in The Word of God?

"Just as their are great differences between the different denominations all of which consider themselves God's church, there are differences here as well."

Hmm. what they consider and what is The Truth are two very different things. Demon-inations are really just divisions - Divisions that The Lord commanded against: 1 Cor 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment."

Demon-inations are just a rebellion against God; yes there are true believers within the demon-inations, but they are held captive by the religious humbug and manipulation of those groups. Sooner or later, they will have to set themselves free, as I did several years ago.

"But this is also God's world and we are His children living in it."

No, Christian Democrat, this is not God's world, this is Satan's world. Do you not understand the temptation of Jesus Christ. Satan said to Jesus if you bow down and worship me I will give you all you can see - all the kingdoms of the world. This means they must be Satan's in order to offer them to Jesus Christ. Satan is the one with authority on this earth until Jesus Christ returns. Yes, it is God's creation but Satan rules it for now, but not for much longer.

Eph 6:12 "Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

Politicians are not looking too good are they C. D. and that's because it's open season in the White House and 10 Downing Street for The Devil?

"I think we agree that Faith should have nothing to do with politics and visa versa, but darnit, the fundamentalists got in there and it was too ugly to watch from the sidelines as hypocrites and liars repeatedly invoked the name of God as being on their side."

These 'fundamentalists' as you call them are really just men of religion trying to force that religion on to an unreceptive American population.

No man or woman can come to Jesus Christ unless The Father draws him or her to Jesus Christ. John 6:44 "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day."

Man doesn't have a say in his conversion anymore than the Disciples did or Paul for that matter. It's all down to The Father. This means, should we go round brow beating our fellows into a Christian way of life when all the while they don't want it, and they're 'rejecting' it - they can do nothing else unless the Father motivates or calls them to do otherwise.

OK, this means 'Christians' in politics is bad news, because like the Puritans of 17th Century England under Cromwell, their joyless enforced straight-jacket religion (legalism) quickly turned sour and the people rejected it. In turn, they welcomed back their King because even with all his faults they had more freedom and he was more equitable than the religious zealots under Cromwell. What an indictment?

n2sbp

10/15/2006 3:22 PM  
Anonymous Playtah said...

Three questions for you:

1) Do you think man's inspired liberal reforming is Christianity?

2) Where in Scripture does The Lord command us to change this world?

2) How many political leaders do you think there will be in The Kingdom of God?




1) I'm not exactly sure what you mean. Do you have examples?

2) Sometimes Scripture gives us principles, not exact verses. For example, I believe in the Trinity, but there is not an exact verse that says, "God has 3 parts" or however you want to describe the Trinity. There are things that appear here and there throughout the Scripture, and we put them together through study and find that there is a truth or principal being shown. I think a very clear principal shown in God's Word is the principal of redemption/reconciliation. God is redeeming His people and His earth. (Although Satan may be the 'ruler' of the earth for a time, the earth is ultimately God's.) We help to redeem the earth by treating it as God would want it treated. This means that conservationists, eco-scientists, and all people who try to make the earth a better place are all doing God's work, in addition to missionaries, etc.

Second #2) How many political leaders do I think there will be in The Kingdom of God?

As many as have received him and have decided to live their lives in reconciled relationship with God, people, and the earth.

Good questions.

10/16/2006 5:49 AM  
Blogger Christian Democrat said...

n2sbp -

While I appreciate your fervor, I have to say my theology is quite different from yours. It isn't an issue of importance to me, and likely not to you either. We can each maintain our faith as we sense it and carry on in this world while waiting for the next one.

I deny that this is the evil one's world. And while you can believe that the whole thing is held together by the Holy Spirit, I won't even attempt to say what holds it together as I don't think science has gotten there and any other statement is interpretation of the Word, perhaps making something that isn't there fit one's theological needs. Again, I have no issue with that for you, it is your choice and please, carry on in your faith.

I believe we are to work in this world to make it as good as we can. Going back to the Amish, where this all started, they are carving out their little slice and succeeding quite nicely. Each of us should have efforts we work with for betterment of all whether we define all as a village in Africa, some folks down the street, or disarming nuclear weapons on a global scale.

You mis-quoted me, or misunderstood. I did not say I consider all faiths equal. I said I would like to. The point I was making was that I honor another person's faith as we speak of faith. I seek similarities rather than differences. Differences in theology and differences in faith are not necessarily the same thing, but when it comes to faith we must be gentle in our spreading the Word. If a person is of another faith it is very easy to create walls that can't be climbed. Much better to start scratching a whole in the wall that a little light might come in.

I am very much a person of this world and seek a balance of God in my life and those around me along with paying the mortgage, getting my kids through college and into successful, happy, faithful lives, keeping our country safe which includes not incurring huge debt, not starting unneeded wars, building strong borders and good relations with our neighbors. We can be people of God here and now, in fact we are called to be.

Your most important question was whether I believe what is written is the Word of God. Very simply, and I know this blasphemous to some, yes and no. I believe in the original writings but think them lost to time. The translations and interpretations since are, in my thinking, perhaps tainted by the hand of man. Even with these possible alterations, the essence remains the same while still being sensed differently by each reader. Even the same exact verse, read by two people, will have a different meaning to each of them. A personal meaning that they take with them, that may become part of them. Even the same verse, being read a second time, can take on a new meaning - in fact if often does.

We have different senses of our individual places in this time. You are free to post here but I'm going to respond to you less as I don't sense a need to alter your thinking and frankly don't have a desire to change mine. I'm open to new thinking but not to another person's personal and strict interpretation no matter how well developed it may be.

Peace to you.

10/16/2006 9:23 AM  
Blogger no2salvation-by-process said...

Oh dear oh dear, I have met some Spiritually blind people in my time, but you two take first prize.

And yes, I thought I would be wasting my time here and the last two posts prove the point in no uncertain terms, so I think I will dust off my shoes and be on my way.

n2sbp

10/16/2006 9:46 AM  
Anonymous Playtah said...

n2sbp,

Judge if you must, but I believe I too have the Spirit of God.

Take this as a gentle nudge, but from my perspective brother, you seem very eager (and almost enjoy) to condemn, and not willing to understand. I pray that the Lord will give you insight, compassion, and humility.

10/16/2006 10:03 AM  
Blogger Christian Democrat said...

Ahhhh, to be judged by man!

Peace be with you.

10/16/2006 11:45 AM  
Anonymous Playtah said...

I was judged by man once. It was when I was fighting a speeding ticket. I lost...and had to pay it. :)

10/16/2006 12:08 PM  
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11/25/2006 4:52 PM  
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11/26/2006 2:40 PM  

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